A Post Office fraud investigator today denied he and other investigators “behaved like mafia gangsters” – as he faced questions at the inquiry into the Horizon IT system.
Stephen Bradshaw, a Post Office employee for more than 45 years, was involved in the criminal investigation of nine sub-postmasters.
During more than seven hours of questioning at the inquiry in London, a bullish Mr Bradshaw…
• Denied he and other investigators “behaved like mafia gangsters”;
• Refuted claims he was a bully and called a sub-postmistress a “b****h” on the phone;
• Said he was “not technically minded” when asked why he did not question Horizon system;
• Told the inquiry he was “no expert” on the system, but had working knowledge;
• Said statement he signed saying Post Office had “absolute confidence” in Horizon was not written by him.
Throughout his witness statement, submitted earlier to the inquiry, Mr Bradshaw said his investigations had been conducted in a “professional” manner.
He also said in the statement: “I refute the allegation that I am a liar.”
‘Not technically minded’
Mr Bradshaw, a witness in the inquiry into the Post Office Horizon scandal, began giving evidence on Thursday morning.
His evidence was given at the start of phase 4 of the inquiry, which has been hearing witnesses since February 2022 and has already heard from many of the victims.
Mr Bradshaw was involved in the criminal investigation of nine sub-postmasters, including Lisa Brennan, a former counter clerk at a post office in Huyton, near Liverpool, who was falsely accused of stealing £3,000 in 2003. She was one of the first witnesses to the inquiry.
Mr Bradshaw was questioned by counsel to the inquiry, Julian Blake, about why he did not question the reliability of the Horizon system.
He acknowledged he was aware of newspaper reports of technical bugs but said: “I’m not technically minded with that. I would expect that to come from the people above.
“If there was an issue, I would expect Fujitsu [the maker of Horizon] to inform the Post Office and the Post Office to let us know what the issues are.”
Asked how early on he was aware of Horizon being an issue, he said 2010, but “some may have mentioned it earlier”.
‘Investigations done correctly’
Mr Blake also asked Mr Bradshaw if, over the past 20 years, he “may have been involved in what has been described as one of the largest miscarriages of justice in British history?”.
Mr Bradshaw said he had “no reason to suspect at the time” that there was anything wrong with the Horizon system, because his team had “not been involved”.
“The investigations were done correctly,” he said.
“The investigations were done at the time, no problems were indicated by anybody that there were issues with the Horizon system.”
‘You have told me a pack of lies’
Mr Bradshaw had previously been accused by Merseyside sub-postmistress Rita Threlfall of asking her for the colour of her eyes and what jewellery she wore, before saying: “Good, so we’ve got a description of you for when they come”, during her interview under caution in August 2010.
Another sub-postmistress, Jacqueline McDonald, claimed she was “bullied” by Mr Bradshaw during an investigation into a shortfall of more than £94,000.
In her interview with Mr Bradshaw, which was read to the inquiry, Ms McDonald was accused by the investigator of telling him a “pack of lies”.
The exchange between Ms McDonald and Mr Bradshaw, read by Mr Blake, included the investigator saying: “Would you like to tell me what happened to the money?”
Ms McDonald replies: “I don’t know where the money is I’ve told you.”
Mr Bradshaw continues: “You have told me a pack of lies.”
Ms McDonald says: “No I haven’t told you a pack of lies because I haven’t stolen a penny.”
Mr Blake said the witness’s words sounded “somewhat like language you might see in a 1970s television detective show”.
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Responding to Ms McDonald’s allegations of his aggressive behaviour in his witness statement, Mr Bradshaw said: “I also refute the claim that Jacqueline McDonald was bullied.
“From the moment we arrived, the auditor was already on site, conversations were initially (held) with Mr McDonald, the reason for our attendance was explained, Mr and Mrs McDonald were kept updated as the day progressed.”
At the inquiry, Mr Bradshaw added: “Ms Jacqueline McDonald is also incorrect in stating Post Office investigators behaved like mafia gangsters looking to collect their bounty with the threats and lies.”
Post Office bonuses
Mr Bradshaw was asked about whether staff were paid bonuses for successful prosecutions.
He told the inquiry that “bonuses have always been paid by the Royal Mail Group and Post Office”.
Sir Wyn Williams is chairing the inquiry
Asked if success in a criminal case would impact the amount paid, Mr Bradshaw replied: “No, not at all.”
“I’m paid whether one case is done or a thousand cases,” he said.
“We don’t get any extra bonus because of this. It’s how well you do your job.”
Mr Blake then asked: “If you’re considered to have protected the business and prevented the wider impact on the business, do you think that that might lead to a bonus?”
Mr Bradshaw replied: “It may do, and it may not do.”
‘Absolute confidence in Horizon’
Mr Bradshaw was asked about a letter, signed by him in November 2012, in which he declared the Post Office’s “absolute confidence” in the “robustness and integrity” of the Horizon system
He told the inquiry that the statement was written by lawyers from the law firm Cartwright King.
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Asked if it was appropriate for him to declare “confidence” in the IT system in the 2012 statement, he said: “I was given that statement by Cartwright King and told to put that statement through.
“In hindsight… there probably should have been another line stating, ‘These are not my words’.”
Mr Bradshaw told the inquiry he was not “technically minded” and was not equipped to know whether there were bugs or errors in the Horizon system.
The statutory inquiry, which began in 2021 and is chaired by retired judge Sir Wyn Williams, has previously looked at the human impact of the scandal, the Horizon system roll-out and the operation of the system, and is now probing the action taken against sub-postmasters.
The probe was established to ensure there is a “public summary of the failings which occurred with the Horizon IT system at the Post Office” and subsequently led to the wrongful convictions of sub-postmasters.
